Google vs. God
Image of the Day April 22nd, 2007 - By Haochi
Yay, another Google vs. God from the North Shore Assembly of God.
Google can’t satisfy every search
Google is not omniscient, it can’t read your mind. You can only get satisfy results with good search terms.
[photo by David Cancel, used under a CC-license]
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:05 am
Awesome.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:51 am
Maybe not, but at least Google returns your queries.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Totally true. Not only does Google not satisfy every search, it took a lot longer than 7 days to complete. God did many major projects each of the 6 days, then he took a vacation! Google has been working to perfect their search for years now, yet it is a quite good internet search engine… I use it daily, I’m not going to lie…
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Google may return your queries but does it give you answers?
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Google may not answer ALL searches - but at least it exists…
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Yes.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:43 pm
True, very true.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Does the big “G” give answers? Jesus typically spoke in puzzling parables, eh?
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Haha, great one! =)
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:45 pm
just search for “the answer to life the universe and everything” an you’ll find out ;)
scnr
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:47 pm
God is either fake or unimaginably cruel.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:47 pm
And how the FUCK does “god” satisfy every search?
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Google only exists because God enabled someone the brainpower to make it so. As for returning your queries, search with a right heart, tell God to reveal himself to you and wait. If He truly is omniscient, omnipresent and sovreign you can expect a reply in his time instead of yours and finally as for answers, do you want real answers or the answers you want to hear?
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:53 pm
What’s so puzzleing about Jesus’ parables?
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:54 pm
But at least Google is real.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Yeah, at least you get an instantaneous response from google.
God. Not so much.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Amen to # 13.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Google = not omnipotent; makes it easier to find stuff on the internet.
God = onmipotent; stood on the sidelines during the holocaust.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Nice to see Saugus, Ma making DIGG
I drove by this yesterday and actually laughed out loud.
Usually this place has demoralizing postings on its sign.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:59 pm
This sign doesn’t take into account the new web, where users provide content. If God were up to speed, he would insist that the church goers were the answer, and you can have the answers in your own church too with a little XML.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:59 pm
Well google exists, so it has that on god.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:00 pm
there’s only one way to settle this…..
GOOGLE FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=google&word2=god
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:01 pm
To those who deny the existence of God: what have you done to be so confident in your assessment? Or do you simply search for that which you only want to believe?
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:01 pm
That’s the problem with our modern culture. People want “instant” gratification. Some things are worth the wait and far beyond what the realm of what you could possibly imagine for yourself. Lessons to be learned and character to build along the way. As for the “At least Google is real” comment, consider this: Gravity is real too yet you can’t see it or touch it but by some calculation it’s been made tangible and given a name.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:04 pm
God is a cultural metaphor for the unknown. Since the unknown exists for every culture, God(s) of some kind exists in every one. The tendency for cultures to create their own unique gods should tell you that deities are a human creation that meet human needs, and nothing more.
Google is doing a fine job of being God for contemporary culture. The best to date, I’d say.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Mattbatt. There’s no evidence of a god or gods.
I don’t believe in God just like you don’t believe in Zeus, Wotan or Inubis.
I can SEE gravity working though can’t I?
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:06 pm
Google: Sells advertising.
God: Gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:07 pm
god doesn’t exist though google does.
google owns god in everyway you can ask google what god is!
you can’t ask god what google is
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:08 pm
I don’t beve in God OR Google, what do you think of that?
The kerning on that ‘EAR’ should be a criminal offense, though.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:08 pm
Adam. That’s messed up. A god sacrificing “himself/son” for something God could of changed/stopped anytime he/she wanted…
The pretend god has issues.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:08 pm
To Mattbatt and those who accept the existence of God: what have you done to be so confident in your assessment? Or do you simply search for that which you only want to believe?
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:08 pm
Steve_C..
Good counterpoint, as we can see gravity working. However; I see God working all around me…even at this moment. Does that make my experience less valid than yours?
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Hey DJ - maybe it’s a ligature! ;)
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Come on! God was proclaimed dead in the 1800s. It’s been hella days since then! Get over it, already, find a real hobby. Surely subjecting yourself to self-brutalization through guilt and sacrafice can’t be fun for that long.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:11 pm
Don’t argue with christians guys it’ll only piss you off. How can you beat someone who’s wrong but “knows” they’re right. You’ll only get pissed off. At least you can say to took the high road.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:11 pm
Yes it does. It’s much less valid.
I see invisible naked amazonian women all around me… they’re hot!
Is that any less valid than you’re belief?
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:13 pm
The thing I find strange about the Bible and God is that all religions sort of have similar encounters. Almost all religions have a flood story (Noah + Arc) for instance. Strange that multiple religions made that up similarly.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:14 pm
trinity… I just play with them.
I’ve seen all the circular reasoning before.
It’s even more fun when they tell you the earth is only 10,000 years old or the the Adam&Eve story is factually true, or that evolution is false.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:15 pm
“Google is God”, or if you prefer “God is the Google.”
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:15 pm
God was so great at miracles way back when. Water to wine, parting the red sea, etc. For such an omnipotent being he sure seems out of touch. What has he done for me lately? I’m underwhelmed.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Hey Steve_C. Well, as far as evidence goes, for me there is evidence of the existance of God all around me! The universe, the complexities of life, the extraordinary cell from which we are constintly learning more and more about! It doesn’t end.
And then the evidence of forgiveness and release from guilt in my personal life abounds each day. Who on this forum can prove love exists? Yet most of you have experienced it, just like most have experienced hate and disdain and guilt from others. When Christ sets you free from yourself, from that which few venture to face, maybe then you’ll know what I see everyday.
As far as proving God according to your standards, sorry, I don’t have to nor do I want to. Love, forgiveness and freedom don’t need man’s rules, facts and laws to prove or disprove their existence. Neither does God.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Here is a clear answer of our results. and yet we wonder why the world is so fucked up.
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=google&word2=god
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Young human minds are like unsecured win98 boxes on the net. They instantly get infected by any memes (read:religions) they are exposed to, like ducklings imprinting on a rider mower.
Religions are the botnets of meatspace.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:17 pm
we never had a “god” vs. “microsoft” discussion
Maybe neither exists?
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Weebles n Pals-
Call me a fool or whatever you like but it’s a personal experience very difficult to explain to closed ears on blind eyes; however see comment #13. It’s really very simple once the answer is revealed and accepted. My own search ends with God every time. Don’t think I’ve not done my homework in considering that He doesn’t exist in my own past either.
And furthermore, to think there are not things out there in life beyond our comprehension and understanding is arrogant and foolish in itself.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Mattbatt…
So then what’s the point of religion? I can find plenty of ways to give meaning to my life and the universe we’re in without appointing some creator/judge for it all.
You believe in a god that has created a universe that looks exactly like one without a god.
It’s pointless.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:19 pm
does it matter if God exists or not? does it really matter why we are living and why good things and bad things happen? it will not change a thing. We just need to use our brains, “before” we act. and love one another. Google is just that, Google, made by man. A very usful “tool” i like using it very much, it does not mean I should worship it.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Sorry Matt. But the universe, the complexity of life, etc. doesn’t prove the existence of God. People in this world want purpose and answers. The belief in a supreme being gives comfort to many, but at least science has some basis in fact. A belief in God relies entirely on faith. I would put my belief in empirical evidence over faith in a imaginary friend for grown ups any day.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Sure there’s things beyond our understanding… but to make the jump that “god did it” is equally foolish. I’m more interested in honest understanding and investigation rather than just giving up at… “It’s too hard”.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:23 pm
Haha, this is hilarious :D
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:24 pm
If evolution is always happening, where are the people/things that are not yet human or that are evolving beyond humans? If we are always evolving, seems like we should see some half-evolved things walking around here. The common response is evolution takes thousands of years which I understand but there should be signs of evoultion somewhere.
That reminds me of a while back how they wanted to give apes rights because they shared 98% of our DNA. Mice share 90% and fish about 40%. Even bananas share 50% of our DNA. Maybe we evolved from fruit.
Soure: New Scientist magazine (July 1, 2000)
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:26 pm
Steve_C
Depends on your mental state I suppose. In your mind you may be convinced of it. Far be it from me to argue your rationale having never met you, knowing nothing about you and not automatically putting you in a box because you don’t believe…for all you know, I may just be a hot amazonian woman…who happens to believe.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:27 pm
the strongest argument I’ve ever heard used to explain the existence of god was that “how do you know the wind exists? In the same manner that the majority of people can’t explain how wind really works, is the way in which some can’t understand how God operates”
Granted it’s not a strong argument, but for some reason that always seemed to me to be a good point in explaining how some could believe in god. Personally I don’t think God himself could make me believe in his existence, but I’m part of that arrogant few that are just unwilling to accept the presence of any being greater then anything on this earth (granted I don’t hold humans as higher then other animals/organisms).
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Hey Weebles. Glad you asked. Let’s see, well for starters I have purpose, direction, confidence and a new life all from something you guys say doesn’t exist. I’ve heard him speak to me, guide me, forgive me. I’ve seen people miraculously healed, get out of whee chairs, walk, legs grow out, right in front of me (though miracles don’t need to happen to prove God—and many Christian’s don’t believe in miracles—and even some Christians would think I’m totally crazy for writing what I just wrote. But that’s ok). I’ve seen drug addicts, know murderors, know the hardest gang-bangers and seen their lives completely changed. Known those who would kill over $100 forgive their enemies. Known those who curse God and hate those who believe in Him turn around. I’ve seen, heard, felt, known too much to say, “ya, you’re all right. We Christian’s don’t know anything.”
Well, it perfectly ok for you to believe in nothing. Most people just want to argue to prove themselves right anyway. Me, if people want to know, they can. Its simple. God doesn’t break his Word, what has been written and established through time, culture and language—you can bank on it. Most people don’t even crack open the book, the very thing they claim is so messed up through translations. They don’t even study to disprove it!
God doesn’t have a problem forgiving and cleansing anyone who is willing and bold enough to look at themselves with truth and ask: Why am I here? Am I really fulfilled? Do I really believe the wrong that I have done can simply be covered through ignorance?
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Amen to #13!
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:30 pm
There is no argument, there is a reality. God is there for whoever wants to see it. the end.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:32 pm
I think the craziest things I’ve seen were tumors and disease disappear without treatment. That just changes things inside. How else would you justify things that science says are impossible?
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:32 pm
its all fake! Anyone that knows anything knows that.
Might as well rewrite the good book to include a few references to Google so we can know that god created Google.
In other news: The word Bible is now synonymous with Google and my cat just coughed up a hair ball that looks like Noah. I’m putting stands of it on eBay in the next hour.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Amen to #13!
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people.
-Marx
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:41 pm
PIC: GOD SAVED HER
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:44 pm
I would like to see 30 million species on a boat for 30 days. Where was the food kept? Some animals live by eating the others . . . and . . . if there is no evolution: how am I white and someone else black and another asian, but we are all from the same family (Noah). The tower of babble explains the language differnece, but not why I am 6 foot and almost all asians are like 5 or less. Who was Cains wife? His sister? Where did all these different looking peope come from? Space^h^h^h^h heaven??
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Google doesnt discriminate against me when I look at porn
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:47 pm
“It’s really very simple once the answer is revealed and accepted.”
HA! My favorite Christian mind trick: “Believe first and then you will Believe.”
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Haha, I luv this sign!! It’s plain and simple, but gets a powerfull message across.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:54 pm
“If we are always evolving, seems like we should see some half-evolved things walking around here. ”
Good LORD! How the f*** would you even measure a “half-evolved thing?” Perhaps you’re a half-evolved thing yourself. If humanity manages to survive another 2.4 million years (doubtful), you may just be.
Try picking up a goddamn science book and reading it before declaring such banalities, please.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:55 pm
AMEN #54 (”i’ve seen great things happen because of god”)
The only explanation possible for anything good happening is God.
All evil in the world is due to mankind (except those who accept God) and Satan.
God is clearly not culpable for this, because he gave mankind free will. God also does not make mistakes, so clearly mankind must experience all the bad stuff to understand what God wants it too.
God just wants us to understand that life would be much easier if we just gave up this whole ‘free-will’ BS an accepted his word without question. I sure have — too bad those damn camel-jockeys and christ-killers and commie-liberals are messing it all up. Well, at least until the rapture comes — we’ll see who believes in god THEN!
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:58 pm
may be god is just some security blanket that many who live in denial can wrap around when they are lonely.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:01 pm
“I think the craziest things I’ve seen were tumors and disease disappear without treatment. That just changes things inside. How else would you justify things that science says are impossible?”
If an crocodile gobbled up your left arm, would you expect to have it grow back if enough church congregations prayed for it?
There is a psychosomatic element to some deceases like cancer, and there are proven scientific explanations as to how stress can negatively effect recovery. Prayer may help psych you out, but it won’t make your arm grow back, or resuscitate you after drowning, or pull a bullet out of your skull.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Google does indeed provide all the answers you need… As shown Here
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:02 pm
@fearphage
Yea, 2000 years ago most people believe the sun is god. Now science came along and kinda fucked up that idea didn’t it. So may be things that is inexplicable is because science hasn’t got around to explaining it yet.
I can turn water into wine. It’s call chemistry
I can walk on water. Use a floation device. It’s call physics.
The fact that you can use the internet is thank to science, not god.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:03 pm
I drive by this sign every day on my way to work, and whoever does the sign does a great job. Usually something thoughtful, and is rarely too “God-dy” (ha! gaudy! get it?). Overall its one of the nicer points about driving god-forsaken Route 1 every day.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:03 pm
“too bad those damn camel-jockeys and christ-killers and commie-liberals are messing it all up. Well, at least until the rapture comes — we’ll see who believes in god THEN!”
If the rapture means getting rid of bigoted, myopic assholes like you, then I for one can’t wait.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:04 pm
You expect Google to find you answers. Then you pretty much depend on yourself to solve your problems. Result: You get things done.
You ask God to solve your problems and then you wait. And you wait. Then you get pissed off.
Who makes the big difference then.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:07 pm
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Listen, guys, I work for Google now.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:13 pm
#73 That’s part of Gods brilliant plan too! God wants everyone to be happy, and since those who reject Gods word clearly ENJOY suffering and general ‘bad stuff’ happening to them, he brings those of us who accept his word up to be with him, and leaves you hippy commu-tards down there with the rest of them to enjoy the mess you make of things.
The sad things as that just being around people of you may have already corrupted me beyond redemption, which is why I saved my wife and children years ago. I know I won’t get to see them in Heaven, but at least I know they made it — because I sent them!
Yours Truly,
S.R. Chasm
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Evolution vs Intelligent Design:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=evolution&word2=intelligent+design
Google hath spoken.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:17 pm
What never ceases to amaze me is the number fundamentalists who tend to display significant arrogance in their arguments.
Is Superbia no longer a cardinal sin?
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:17 pm
in google we trust!
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:21 pm
#78 You are an IDIOT! Of course, it is a SIN! What you fail to understand is that God FORGIVES them for it!
In fact, the Preacher told me God would even forgive ME for sending my family to him, all I needed was another baptism — looks like I get to see my loved ones in Heaven after all!
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:21 pm
Continue this debate online. Visit my website and answer your opinion. Pass the link along.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:22 pm
God is a mind virus. This infection propagates usually from parent to unsuspecting child. Since the child doesn’t have the proper antibodies in place yet, they are infected quite easily by this belief after the parent starts proselytizing to them. It can be very difficult to remove the infection, but the sooner an education and the ability to think critically can be administered to the victim the better. Hosts that are older in age generally have the proper mental defenses in place to resist infection although it isn’t unheard of for a human adult to become infected. This is what I’ve observed anyway.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Scott R. Chasm: Dude, love the satire!
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:31 pm
I timeout trying to DNS God! I’ve lost faith ;_;
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:33 pm
suck my dick christflakes.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Hahahaha…. awesome :D
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:35 pm
God gives man basic instincts and poses his laws exactly opposite to them. Cruel b@st@rd if you ask me.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:01 pm
jesus was dead a whole 2 days. some sacrifice. whats 2 days to god since hes supposedly been around forever. actually existing human beings lose their sons forever and suffer all the pain that goes along with it and god is supposed to be special?
for the story make even a little bit of sense, the “sinless” jesus would be in hell right now suffering eternal torment in place of all those that believe in him, not hanging out in heaven doing nothing.
god makes no sense. google helps to make some sense of the internet.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:03 pm
I just have to ask, why is the internet full of atheists, I’m a totall nerd, and I believe in god. I feel sorry for those with lost faith.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:03 pm
The people with religious belief should be viewed as we view the few tribes that are left in undeveloped places of the world. This is an ancient way of thinking that only excels at dividing the people of the world and giving individual minds comfort. We should separate from them similar to the Amish isolation paradigm so they can linger in their fantasy existence as we observe them from afar and take notes.
Those of us in technology and science should continue to press ahead and leave these mentally underdeveloped beings on Earth as we sail to the distant stars in search of intelligent life. Preferably using the Google star search vehicle.
Maybe I could suffer their existence concurrent to mine if they were able to embrace their beliefs without rewards for their eternal soul. This sounds a little too much like kissing the bosses caboose to me.
Keep in mind that I did not saying anything against those with faith and their right to believe, only that they should be avoided at all costs.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Thank god I’m an atheist
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:07 pm
From Scott R. Chasm: “The sad things as that just being around people of you may have…”
Seriously dude, WTF?
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Amen to #666!
God was slain by a big pink unicorn named Nimfoofoo. True story - I read it in a book!
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:18 pm
You guys are funny. Every person on this planet needs to answer two questions before they can call themselves “educated”:
1. What do you believe?
2. Why do you believe it?
The atheists/agnostics here are simply offering arguments from philosophical books that have been offered for hundreds of years (take a course in Philosophy and Religion, you’ll see what I mean). I have not seen a single argument here that’s unique or new.
So, to the people who don’t believe: why? If you can’t answer that question without resorting to what other people say, then you don’t really understand why you don’t believe. I ask the same question of the people who do believe. If you believe only because your parents taught you to believe, then you don’t really understand why you believe.
I happen to believe in God, and I have two degrees, one in Computer Science and one in Particle Physics. I have a firm foundation in science, yet I am willing to admit that science does not have very many answers. There are far more things we don’t understand than you might think. This certainly doesn’t imply that God must exist, and I’m willing to accept that some questions are still just waiting to be answered by science. But I am also willing to accept the possibility that there is a God, and that the way He functions in our lives is something beyond our ability to logically reason.
Anyhow, just know what you believe and be able to support it. This will go a long way towards eliminating name-calling in any debate. :)
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:22 pm
pizza ? no
duff beer ? no
40 black eyed virgins ? no
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:24 pm
“Google can’t satisfy every search”
Neither can God.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:27 pm
To be honest i have gotten more answers from Google than from god….
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:30 pm
It is absurd for the evolutionist to complain that it is unthinkable for an admittedly unthinkable God to make everything out of nothing, and then pretend that is is more thinkable that nothing should turn itself into everything.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Halo 3, cant wait.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:45 pm
I searched “Life, the universe, and everything” on google and all it returned was the number 42.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Now that’s interesting church!
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:14 pm
#51
Lactose tolerance is an example of recent human evolution. Most animals lose the ability to drink milk when they are young, most humans keep this ability through adulthood. This was probably caused by the raising of cattle causing a genetic disadvantage to those unable to consume milk.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/11/science/11evolve.html?ex=1323493200&en=a2ded9bbd0241eaf&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:16 pm
If you think ‘God’ gives you answers, then please…see a doctor… god doesn’t talk back, help you, or whatever it may be…these are only thoughts/imaginations you thought up in your head in which you began to believe (or still do)…so quit fooling yourself and wasting your time…you can at least prove ‘Google’. Can you with ‘God?…Nope :-(
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:17 pm
Einstein is one of the smartest scientists ever and he had a strong sense of “religiosity”…that feeling you get when you are standing next to something so awsome that you cannot comprehend and so feel humbled. Kind of like the way you feel when you try to figure out how thousands of computers pop back that search result you were looking for.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/
http://www.tricity.wsu.edu/~dcarrell/einstein/quotesaboutgod.htm
http://www.ctinquiry.org/publications/torrance.htm
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:18 pm
Lets not forget that with Google you can get 10 of thousands of matches for your query. Is this not unlike listening for that still small voice?
I too am one of those nerds that believe in God and am listening for that still small voice, but not on Google (and definitely not on Wikipedia)
I think I’ll go listen to some Chris Rice….
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:21 pm
so very true
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Wake the hell up!
God doesn’t exist.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Please stop trying to convince christians that they’re wrong. If you were to succeed, thousands of preachers wouldn’t be able to put bread on the table.
All we’d get out of that is an Ex-Christian Help Fund, of which we would see infomercials late at night that would probly go something like this:
“When you call 1-800-PLZ-STFU, we will rush you a photograph of one poor ex-christian, along with their moving story for the piece of mind that for only 80cents a day, you too can help in leaving no Ex-Christian behind. Call now.”
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Who are all you pompous Christian assholes to automatically assume that your god is the higher power! I personally think that the Greek had it right all along and that the gods are all hangin out on Mt. Olympus. Where do you get the right to say that theres only one god. POLYTHEISM FTW
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:37 pm
The truth is religion is set forth for people not intelligent enough to understand how to behave in a civil manner. A world without religion would be great if we were all good people, but clearly we are not. The Bible gives the uneducated a set of morals to live by, unfortunately that’s what the well educated people have to deal with to avoid chaos.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:45 pm
God and Google don’t really give a shit about you or your opinions.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:59 pm
“Maybe not, but at least Google returns your queries.”
OMG, that’s the most hilarious thing I’ve heard all day.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:59 pm
God is real, but unfortunately you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
Consider this: I would rather believe in God and find out he isn’t real than not believe in God and find out he is real.
God is returning soon and I for one am ready.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:00 pm
How many people here have seen, heard, or proven beyond reasonable doubt that God exists?
How was the bible created?
Who wrote the first bible?
Why do people believe that Mary was a virgin, when she was A) married to Joseph and B) running away from home? (sounds like they were unwed and she was running to avoid losing the baby).
Why are there so many versions of what happened, how God feels and what he wants from us, but he has never come down to set the record straight in all this time?
Why is the pope able to communicate with god, but elected by men? Shouldn’t god decide who he wants to talk to?
How many people have been killed as a direct result of religion?
How many people have died as a direct result of Atheism? (And no, you can’t blame religious deaths on them being non-believers - they died because of religion, plain and simple! Just look at the crusades!).
Why do people STILL believe in this stuff, when science has increasingly given UNDENIABLE FACTUAL EVIDENCE that it’s wrong?
I could go on, but I need a sandwich.
Bloody religious nutjobs… open your eyes!
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:10 pm
In response to fearphage, comment #51…
You obviously don’t know the first thing about evolution. Evolution is a force driven soley by natural selection, its not a magical hand changing creatures for the better. Mankind is not influenced by the same naturally selective pressures as other species. This is mostly do to the fact that humans have invented ways of overcoming characteristics that decrease our chances of survival. If we can’t see well enough, we get contacts. If we can’t walk, there are wheelchairs and prosthetic limbs. We have treatments and cures for diseases that would wipe out entire species. The Industrial Revolution, Technology, The Information Age… Mankind’s innovations have allowed the weak to live when natural selection would force them to die. Simple as that.
Before anyone discusses God, perhaps they should look into the origins of “the god theory”… and the reasons why all societies across the globe have developed god centered religions. There’s a very good explanation for it, and a very good explanation for why the god theory is no longer a reasonable explanation in today’s world. There is an excellent video on youtube that goes over this quite well…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyerwOIwfRc
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:10 pm
And the lord said [sic] “Do what I say or I’ll set you on fire forever and not even piss on you out of sympathy”.
wtf? Religion is based on fear- fear of punishment if you don’t believe it- but the stupid thing is, it’s a story made up over 2000 years ago to keep you fools in line- and IT STILL WORKS! HA HA! YOU LOSE! THE BOOGEYMAN IS GOING TO GET YOU!!!
It was probably an April 1st gag and the joker died before he could explain it.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:13 pm
I cant help it that the brain god gave me makes me question his existence. Why would he punish me for that? It seems that god is a bit conceited, wanting us to worship him all the time. But seriously, what difference does it make if we worship him or not? why would he send us to hell for not praising him? THAT is your kind and loving god?
1) If god only created life on earth, then why are there so other galaxies > stars > solar systems > planets?
2) Why aren’t dinosaurs ever mentioned in the bible; you’d think they’d kinda be a big deal.
3) It’s pretty obvious the world isn’t 6000 years old, but every time something from the bible is refuted by science, the christians just deny, deny, deny.
Oh yeah, I remember, god works in “mysterious ways”.
And something else I’ve been pondering over, if god and satan are enemies, and satan rules hell, and god sends you to hell for disobeying him, then why would satan punish you when you reached hell, you’d think he would reward you.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Dear God,
What’s the highest peak in Africa ?
… waiting …
Hello ? Hello, God ! Peak in Africa, mate, huh ?
Oh well, http://www.google.com …
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:21 pm
I challenge any skeptic to find a ten square mile spot on this planet where they can live their lives in peace and safety and decency, where womanhood is honored, where infancy and old age are revered, where they can educate their children, where the Gospel of Jesus Christ has not gone first to prepare the way. If they find such a place, then I would encourage them to emigrate thither and there proclaim their unbelief.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:23 pm
God: Sells social control through persuasion in the belief of an afterlife and eternal damnation
Google: Sells social control through the persuasion that coke really is the real thing.
I’m not sure which is worse.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:23 pm
God: Sells social control through persuasion in the belief of an afterlife and eternal damnation
Google: Sells social control through the persuasion that Pepsi is the choice of a new generation
I’m not sure which is worse.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:27 pm
Hey #54, I believe in something. I believe the bible is a crock of shit for people who need direction in life. Face it religion is good for one kind of person now. Recovering drug addicts.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:27 pm
Sorry guys. I don’t give you answers. I only let you think so because you’re fucked in the head and weak.
Pussies.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:29 pm
So when science/medicine says someone will die without treatment and treatment doesn’t come but they are healed some non-medical way, then what? AIDS sometimes heals itself? Tumors the size of a baseball eat themselves sometimes in a matter of days? Maybe there are scientific explanations for such things. Please enlighten me.
When family members are diagnosed with terminal illnesses but are mysteriously healed, I know no other explanation besides a higher power and doctors creeping around like ninjas treating patients in secrecy. Things of that magnitude leave me no choice but to believe. Keep in mind I’m not saying you have to. You will do what and as you always have done.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:32 pm
“Maybe not, but at least Google returns your queries.”
jajajajjajaj, lol. Funny dude.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:33 pm
The “He” should work for Google! And BTW # 56, where is it, I want to see it too, and as somebody said, “I’m not an atheist because they have not holidays”
;-)
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Your mom is muy picante.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:44 pm
I perceive life to be logical and workable with belief in the Bible, miracles etc., and illogical and unworkable without this belief. Somehow or other an extraordinary idea has arisen that the disbelievers in miracles consider them coldly and fairly, while believers in miracles accept them only in connection with some dogma. The fact is quite the other way. The believers in miracles accept them (rightly or wrongly) because they have evidence for them. The disbelievers in miracles deny them (rightly or wrongly) because they have a doctrine or dogma against them.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:44 pm
My own Father was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Over 40 years later he is still here and there is NO brain tumor. He never had treatment, he asked for Gods healing. You’ll forgive me if I believe. Thank You God. This is but one example.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:46 pm
God exists thats all I have to say
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:49 pm
I find it ironic it is the tolerant atheists who are abusive and not the “pompous Christan assholes.”
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:51 pm
And is is the Christians who can write standard English.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:52 pm
#111 Brad Taylor: So all things immoral are are only committed by the uneducated? HMMMMM - Former President Clinton, The CEO’s of Enron, Oh boy, could this list go on and on.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:52 pm
That should be and it is the Christians who can write standard English.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Here’s one that those evolutionists “forget” to include about Darwin’s findings:
http://www.carm.org/evo_questions/darwineye.htm
Even the one who is credited with the theory of evolution admits…well..he was wrong. (Ouch!)
This is the difference to what people call evolution and what God simply calls adaptation.
It is nice to know that it takes so much more effort to believe in evolution than Creation.
However, it takes great humility to understand that you are not the highest being and that you
are not in control. Everything you have and everything you are is thanks to a higher power known
as God. Sadly, many people are not willing to accept due to man’s (yes that includes you) own
ignorance and selfishness.
Ever wonder why you feel guilty for doing wrong? It is because God void of evil and that there is
so much more to this world than you can fathom. If you even begin to think that the concept of right
and wrong came from anything other than God and man’s selfishness, I am deeply sorry for you.
Chew on this one for a while, “taste and see that it is good”, swallow it, then pray to
God and ask for His forgiveness. God lays before us the CHOICE of Life (God) and Death (sin/man’s
selfish ways), choose Life my friend.
“Are you saying that, with God, I have all the answers?”
“No, I am simply saying that with Him, you only need one…”
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:59 pm
Come on. You don’t have to be on one side or the other to be a jackass. Good and bad exist on both sides of any issue. God does seem to be something which can not be proved or disproved with scientific method. One possible explanation might be that God avoids being subjected to scientific analysis. Food for thought…
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:00 pm
fearphage comment #125:
In my opinion, there is only one way to really understand anything, and that’s to study it. That’s what science does, it takes the most accurate, most up-to-date knowledge mankind has available, and forms a conclusion based upon it. Medicine is a science, constantly updated, constantly at the very limit of accuracy. The theory that a God exists dates back to a time without science… without empirical evidence to support conclusions… Why do terminal illness’s rarely… very rarely… just disappear? I dont know, and neither do you. I can say with the utmost confidence that if such anamolies do exist, there is a rational explanation behind them… and in time, with the proper application of the scientific method, we will understand what appears to be magic. Lightning was once considered proof of the existence of a more powerful entity. Epilepsy was considered to be demonic possession only a few hundred years ago… and actually some still believe in demons and angels and other mystical creatures today. As time progresses, the mysteries of the universe will be revealed to us….through study… by constantly poking everything until it makes sense. Until then, lets not make conclusions based on superstition or ancient philosophy.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:01 pm
For those who don’t seem to understand why God is unable to prevent things or stop them, you should take a few hours and read C.S. Lewis’s “Mere Christianity”…he explains the basis of the Christian faith as well as reasoning behind why God has done, or not done, things throughout time (which in and of itself is something created by humans)
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Good point, Shiffy. If God made a universe, He could not do anything he wanted. Once you define a property, you have to deal with it, or cast it out and start over. You can’t be omnipotent. If we want a car, we can’t have both fuel economy *and* high performance. Once God decided the charge on the electron, he could not arbitrarily define a carbon atom.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:11 pm
“I can say with the utmost confidence that if such anamolies do exist, there is a rational explanation behind them…”
The utmost confidence would be … Faith. Basically you put your Faith in Science.
“That’s what science does, it takes the most accurate, most up-to-date knowledge mankind has available, and forms a conclusion based upon it.”
Now there is a catch 22 the most up to date knowledge mankind has available at the time is usually flawed in some respect. Poor planet Pluto.
God however always was and always is. That has not changed.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:13 pm
“Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those things– trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones. Suppose this black pit of a kingdom of yours IS the only world. Well, it strikes me as a pretty poor one. And that’s a funny thing, when you come to think of it. We’re just babies making up a game, if you’re right. But four babies playing a game can make a play-world which licks your real world hollow. That’s why I’m going to stand by the play world. I’m on Aslan’s side even if there isn’t any Aslan to lead it. I’m going to live like a Narnian as I can even if there isn’t any Narnia.” Puddleglum
C.S.Lewis
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:14 pm
I wonder if other religious groups feel threatened by current technology. Well…we’ve seen the amish, mebbe Mormon’s are afraid of http://www.ask.com. What it looks like to me, is that they seem to take a hostile stance against any new invention of of society. I actually visited a church that proclaimed mini skirts were a sin a few years back…
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:14 pm
That is indeed funny! There is perhaps a temptation to think we as people and individuals are very clever… Kudos to the Rev.! :-)
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Precisely, Larry. For example, God was not able to “save” man from His sins as He stood. For God to be able to “help” mankind, we must accept Him into our lives, which then leads to God placing a bit of Himself into us. But here’s the problem when it came to having to save man. In order to help us, He needed to do something that only we can do and God cannot. He needed to, according to Lewis, surrender, suffer, submit, and die. God is not able to do any of these things; He “was, and is, and is to come”. It is not in His capability to do these things. The only way for this to be part of His nature. The only way for this to become part of His nature was for Him to become truly human. Thus Jesus came. The “one, and only son” of God.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:21 pm
God is fake.
If God made everything, who made God?
If God can just exist beyond time, why can’t the universe do the same? No God is needed to explain anything, except for small minds.
Why does the Christian God, in the Bible, advocate slavery and genocide? Why does he require that anyone gathering wood on a Sunday be stoned to death?
Because the Bible is a ridiculous book hammered together by a bunch of brutal dumbass closed-minded jerks trying to promote their newly invented fake religion, that’s why.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:23 pm
help me understand this one: Intelligent design *must* exist because the complex universe could not have happened without a creator, yet this logic is abandoned instantly as soon as God is brought in. If the universe can’t exist without cause, how can God exist without cause? If you accept that God just exists without a cause or intelligent design, then the universe could exist without cause! You can’t have it both ways.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:24 pm
To James Russell Lowell
how about where any other religion besides Christianity exists? Keep in mind that Christianity is not the only religion in the world nor do a majority of people in the world profess themselves at as Christian. How about the native americans before we took away their land, dignity, and lives? they had a social structure, they honored their women, they raised their children, all under a different God. How about the Aztecs, Mayan’s, or any other group that has been oppressed simply for what they believe in? There are millions of square miles, your just to naive in your thinking to believe that maybe it is human compassion that allows people of a different creed to actually co-exist and their willingness to do so. your the ones throwing it down others throats that God is the end all be all, when the debate still rages on. you prefer not to debate though, rather you want to throw it down our throats and make us conform to your beliefs.
I will not emigrate their and profess my beliefs for the simple fact that i can and will express my beliefs here. The gospel has been used for so many things that it shouldn’t be used for and has been used as an excuse for centuries to “Christians” to take away the life and dignity of so called savages and people of different beliefs. Where is the God in that?
For every good act in the world, i can find 3 wrong ones, you claim all good is by god and all evil is by humans, i dont believe in that.
Just to clarify i am agnostic. i believe in God, but i dont associate myself with any particular church, because i believe most, like this one, use a system of reward-condemnation as a means to salvation or eternal peace, when it should be otherwise. i’m not looking for salvation, i’m looking to be a good person and if that brings rewards in the end then so be it, but to be a good person solely for the reward, well you dont learn anything from that in life.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:24 pm
The bible is what it is, a story. Be it a good one, it’s still just a story.
Something we as humans have done since we had the ability to wonder. Whenever we do not understand something, we have a habit of making up the reasoning behind it just to make us a little more comfy with the unknown world around us.
Like someone said before, the whole idea is a security blanket. humans are afraid of what they do not comprehend. And this fact has a direct responsibility to the majority of the wars we have fought, struggles we have endured and problems we face for the future.
Religion, it seems, is the true sin here.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:27 pm
not true. yesterday I searched Google for my name and all it showed were a bunch of porn sites!
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:28 pm
One thing is certain. Not one among us *knows* the truth. Anyone claiming to know what image of God or which religion is the “true” one is a fool or an idiot.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:29 pm
Very nice find! I love it! I put the pix on inselpix, here’s the link if you want to forward it on to friends in emails and or host it on your site, myspace or whatever…
http://img.inselpix.com/193318281090.jpg
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Josh comment #135.
You might want to find a better source than the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. I have a feeling any information on that site may be biased against evolutionary theory in general, but that’s just a hunch.
It does not take more effort to believe in evolution that in creation… actually, i think it’s the other way around. Evolution is such a logical theory backed by a world full of evidence. If you use radioactive decay to date the age of fossil records of any species, you will see a distinct change over time in charectoristics that improve chances of survival. In every set of fossils of every set of species that exists today… there is a gradual progression of charectoristics that would increase the likelyhood of survival. Using multiple methods of dating… the same progression is apparent. There is more evidence, but needless to say… the evidence supporting evolutionary theory is honestly too great to deny, except for the ignorant.
There are very good reasons why we feel guilty, but there’s nothing supernatural about it. We are socialized from infancy to learn the difference between good and bad. The infant who questions why crossing the street is bad gets run over. An infant does not know the difference between the dangers of crossing the road and the dangers of not sacrificing the goat to the moon god. They are all examples of proper survival behavior displayed by our parents. We have a tendency to carry on this same behavior into our adult lives, as all animals do… the behavior gets passed down to children, who becomes adults… and the cycle continues.
Perhaps you should visit an earlier link I posted about the origins of the God theory. Once one understands where the god theory came from, its very easy to see why the theory no longer applies in the scientifically revolutionized world that we live in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyerwOIwfRc
It’s helpful to realize that we are a product of our environment, to an extent. I wonder, if you were raised in a muslim home, or a pagan home, or predominantly buddhist country… would you still uphold the views on morality that you hold today?
There is an infinite number of hypothesis regarding morality, life after death, eternal damnation, paradise, reincarnation, deification, etc. Each hypothesis is equally valid, because they are speculations made without any evidence supporting them. A rational man realizes that he cannot possibly fulfill the requirements of every religious hypothesis in his lifetime, there are simply too many. Therefore, realizing that every religious hypothesis is equally possible and valid, and that the pursuit of one hypothesis leaves an infinite number of other hypothesis left unfulfilled, and that it is not possible to fulfill the requirements of every religious hypothesis at the same time, the rational man realizes he is constantly at risk of eternal damnation from an infinite number of after-life hypothesis that he cannot fulfill. The rational man accepts this, perhaps with regret, and decides to pursue a life before death, instead of a life after death.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Wait, I almost forgot. My pal and I have discussed this much, and I would like to share it with you all.
I used to work with a guy who was very religious. One day, in the middle of a conversation, he said something about being “saved.”
This got me thinking about god and all that stuff. I had a little light bulb go off in my head, so I figured I go ask this guy a question.
I asked him about what this “saved” thing meant. He basicly said that everyone is imprinted with the sin of man, bla bla bla. And you must go get saved to be able to go to heaven when you die, or when the rapture comes.
So I asked him, “So, its like, if you don’t go our way, you will be damned to hell?”
He replies, yeah.
I rephrase. “So basicly, if i dont follow, im dead?”
He replies, “Basicly, yeah”
Now people, if you’re not sure where this is going, you need to think about it a bit more.
What does this sound like? What group in history does this sound EXACTLY like?
Nazis.
If you werent one of them, you were killed. or enslaved, which is usually worse.
See you religious freaks, you’re all Nazis, weather you like it or not.
If you don’t believe me, go back to grade school and learn about the Holocaust
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Religious people, please read: As an atheist, I believe that there is something greater that our mind cannot (yet?) grasp. Sort-of like how a bacteria can live inside the world of YOU; doing its daily grind; totally unaware of anything outside of its range of exploration. Now, obviously that bacteria isn’t as intelligent as we are, and can’t begin to comprehend the grand scale of Earth, right? Now extrapolate that out to a dog and apply the same. Now extrapolate that out and out and out. Everything is relative.
It’s sad, but original supernatural religious beliefs still exist, regardless of science. It used to be religion’s claim that only it could explain the unknowns, and that it was God’s doing. We see now with observation and good science that most or all of religion’s explanations were wrong. Nowadays, the only real leg religion has to stand on is being able to say “Science can’t explain the origin of life and everything,” and, of course, attributes it to God.
I call bullshit.
When will humanity awake and enter the next level of intelligence?
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Religious people, please read: As an atheist, I believe that there is something greater that our mind cannot (yet?) grasp. Sort-of like how a bacteria can live inside the world of YOU; doing its daily grind; totally unaware of anything outside of its range of exploration. Now, obviously that bacteria isn’t as intelligent as we are, and can’t begin to comprehend the grand scale of Earth, right? Now extrapolate that out to a dog and apply the same. Now extrapolate that out and out and out. Everything is relative.
It’s sad, but original supernatural religious beliefs still exist, regardless of science. It used to be religion’s claim that only it could explain the unknowns, and that it was God’s doing. We see now with observation and good science that most or all of religion’s explanations were wrong. Nowadays, the only real leg religion has to stand on is being able to say “Science can’t explain the origin of life and everything,” and, of course, attributes it to God.
I call bullshit.
When will humanity awaken and enter the next level of intelligence?
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:39 pm
@ Darwin:
Here’s the big question for you. You mentioned that we are trained from infancy as to what is “good” and what is “bad”. How do we as a species understand what is good and bad without there being some predetermined sense of this that can only be explained by a supernatural presence? How do we know what is “good” and what is “bad”? Yes, you can equate it to small things like a child crossing/not crossing a street. However, how do you equate it to things such as the Holocaust, and more recently, the shooting at Virginia Tech? How do you know that the occurrence is “bad”? We seem to have this sense of “morality” that most try to explain by saying that we have been trained for thousands of years as to what is “good” and what is “bad”, but why is it that after all of this time, we, as a mass of people, have not come up with a different belief of what is “good” and “bad”?
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:41 pm
JohnTheBall:
It is all too true that various sects in Christianity have at times been party to actions of which all Christians should be ashamed. I must say that not all missionary efforts among western christians have resulted in forcing our western culture on indiginous people. There is much in cross-cultural missions that is wrong! If you like a good contrasting story may I suggest a great book by Bruce Olsen? His book is called Bruchko. http://www.amazon.com/Bruchko-Astonishing-Nineteen-Year-Olds-International-Adventures/dp/1576583481
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:43 pm
Charlie E.,
>When will humanity awake and enter the next level of intelligence?
When hell freezes over. ;) Emotion and cognitive dissonance rule. Logic is a pretty flower, which smells bad!
As Papa Budge used to say:
Ring the bells that can still ring
forget your perfect offering
there’s a crack in everything
That’s how the light gets in
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Wow, the believer/{atheist|agnostics} ratio is so low for this site’s readers.
#83 DFens: I also have this religion-is-a-virus theory. It’s a mind virus just like we have computer virus, which is also an ‘algorithm’, but not something physical.
I think the virus also spreads easily in church and fellowship. Most people are actually vulnerable to ‘religion’. Only a very small % of people are immune to it by nature. Education also helps decreasing one’s probability of getting infected.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:49 pm
This is how being an informed atheist makes me feel. I find nothing that evokes this type of feeling in any bible:
As you release the fictitious beliefs that stand in your way, you will recognize eternity’s thoughts as your own, and activate historically latent features of human design. You will see that creature and environment are inseparable, and that environment does not stop with an ecosystem but extends to include your star-system, and every galaxy resting in the universal sea. This blue and white sphere, floating so alive through space, is, after all, an intensely intimate place. Its rhythms pulse within our bodies, our gardens, our seasons. As our minds and hearts also attune, our vision clears; we see the world anew. Plants arrange molecules in patterns inspired by the light of our nearest star. Oceans rise to greet the moon. A biosphere plays with endless variations, mingling earth and sun, time and eternity, balancing matter and spirit in uncountable lives. Evolution moves toward balance in consciousness as well as in form.
-Ken Carey, Vision
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Arael,
The difficulty comes when you have deeply moving personal experiences utterly separate from organized religion that indicate something “out there”. Only fools care to try to define it. It is beyond our understanding. You have a good point regarding infectious memes, but just the same, I feel something exists. Those who are “immune” might be missing something, as they rally round their avoidance of the possibility they might be missing the impact of a collective conciousness, or something they do not understand.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:54 pm
do not mingle atheist and agnostics together, just because we dont believe in your particular faith, does not mean we do not have any faith at all. When you group two seperate groups in that kind of catorgory it shows your ignorance.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:57 pm
Damn those group groupers! ;)
April 24th, 2007 at 12:02 am
Religion is just like those annoying infomercials everyone has seem before. They all promise some very marvelous product or service but as well all know the actual results may vary.
April 24th, 2007 at 12:07 am
Question for the Christians?
How can there be predestination and freewill?
April 24th, 2007 at 12:14 am
hcl4 lmao!
Lester, I don’t think that both predestination and free will can exist in the same universe, unless some incredible set up can provide contradictory catagorization or rules to decide when each will dominate.
April 24th, 2007 at 12:21 am
As for me I CHOOSE to believe in God. I am not ashamed of the fact that although I have never SEEN him I have FAITH in him. I don’t look for GOD in the physical world because I find him in my heart. Those of you who consider those of us who believe that Jesus is their personal savior more than likely do not stack up EDUCATION wise to the likes of Dr. Francis Collins, Phd MD, and director of the NATIONAL HUMAN GENOME INSTITUTE. Also the author of “The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief”.
———–
ROCKVILLE, Maryland (CNN) — I am a scientist and a believer, and I find no conflict between those world views.
As the director of the Human Genome Project, I have led a consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human genome, our own DNA instruction book. As a believer, I see DNA, the information molecule of all living things, as God’s language, and the elegance and complexity of our own bodies and the rest of nature as a reflection of God’s plan.
I did not always embrace these perspectives. As a graduate student in physical chemistry in the 1970s, I was an atheist, finding no reason to postulate the existence of any truths outside of mathematics, physics and chemistry. But then I went to medical school, and encountered life and death issues at the bedsides of my patients. Challenged by one of those patients, who asked “What do you believe, doctor?”, I began searching for answers.
I had to admit that the science I loved so much was powerless to answer questions such as “What is the meaning of life?” “Why am I here?” “Why does mathematics work, anyway?” “If the universe had a beginning, who created it?” “Why are the physical constants in the universe so finely tuned to allow the possibility of complex life forms?” “Why do humans have a moral sense?” “What happens after we die?”
I had always assumed that faith was based on purely emotional and irrational arguments, and was astounded to discover, initially in the writings of the Oxford scholar C.S. Lewis and subsequently from many other sources, that one could build a very strong case for the plausibility of the existence of God on purely rational grounds. My earlier atheist’s assertion that “I know there is no God” emerged as the least defensible. As the British writer G.K. Chesterton famously remarked, “Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative.”
But reason alone cannot prove the existence of God. Faith is reason plus revelation, and the revelation part requires one to think with the spirit as well as with the mind. You have to hear the music, not just read the notes on the page. Ultimately, a leap of faith is required.
For me, that leap came in my 27th year, after a search to learn more about God’s character led me to the person of Jesus Christ. Here was a person with remarkably strong historical evidence of his life, who made astounding statements about loving your neighbor, and whose claims about being God’s son seemed to demand a decision about whether he was deluded or the real thing. After resisting for nearly two years, I found it impossible to go on living in such a state of uncertainty, and I became a follower of Jesus.
So, some have asked, doesn’t your brain explode? Can you both pursue an understanding of how life works using the tools of genetics and molecular biology, and worship a creator God? Aren’t evolution and faith in God incompatible? Can a scientist believe in miracles like the resurrection?
Actually, I find no conflict here, and neither apparently do the 40 percent of working scientists who claim to be believers. Yes, evolution by descent from a common ancestor is clearly true. If there was any lingering doubt about the evidence from the fossil record, the study of DNA provides the strongest possible proof of our relatedness to all other living things.
But why couldn’t this be God’s plan for creation? True, this is incompatible with an ultra-literal interpretation of Genesis, but long before Darwin, there were many thoughtful interpreters like St. Augustine, who found it impossible to be exactly sure what the meaning of that amazing creation story was supposed to be. So attaching oneself to such literal interpretations in the face of compelling scientific evidence pointing to the ancient age of Earth and the relatedness of living things by evolution seems neither wise nor necessary for the believer.
I have found there is a wonderful harmony in the complementary truths of science and faith. The God of the Bible is also the God of the genome. God can be found in the cathedral or in the laboratory. By investigating God’s majestic and awesome creation, science can actually be a means of worship.
April 24th, 2007 at 12:24 am
My big question is why people seem to think that they know the way. It is no more prevalent on one side of the issue or the other. Atheists, religious, and all between are so damn certain they know what is right, logical or true. None of us do, and I most explicitly include myself!
April 24th, 2007 at 12:32 am
i still haven’t seen one christian give any reason why their god is real rather than zeus and hera and hades and the rest of them. in my opinion all you christians are athiests! i’m waiting for a good arguement against this one…
April 24th, 2007 at 12:41 am
Larry, you wonder why people seem to think that they know the way.
Atheists don’t claim to know the way. They just know, if they have studied evolution, as some of them have, that complex things evolve from simple beginnings.
Complex things do not just spring into existence. They evolve slowly.
God, if there were such a thing, would be a complex thing. It would have to be complex in order to have the knowledge to create such a complex universe.
Now go back to what I said above. Complex things don’t just exist without some process that creates them. God doesn’t just exist. If there was a God or a God-like supreme intelligence, it would have to be created the same way everything else is, by a gradual process of evolution.
This is the only way we currently know to go from zero knowledge (totally random soup of primordial matter) to intelligence — evolution. There is no other way to do it. This is not a matter of faith; you can think it through and it becomes a matter of common sense and understanding. It’s actually pretty basic, but a lot of otherwise smart and well informed people don’t get this, and therefore call themselves agnostics.
No, atheists do not know everything.
But some of us do know that there is no such thing as God, except as a delusion in the minds of some people.
April 24th, 2007 at 12:42 am
I must quote from Gary’s contribution:
But why couldn’t this be God’s plan for creation? True, this is incompatible with an ultra-literal interpretation of Genesis, but long before Darwin, there were many thoughtful interpreters like St. Augustine, who found it impossible to be exactly sure what the meaning of that amazing creation story was supposed to be.
Like you, I don’t see a big conflict with science and creation. Could it just be that if you examine God’s works in a secular fashon you come up with evolution, God’s way of building a universe? Would you perhaps humor me by imagining that if you communicated the truth of creation to a bunch of fisherman and farmers that you might have to use parables and analogy to describe that best couched in quantum mechanics?
I see no contradiction in evolution and creation at all. Not one.
A big thanks to all who have read my words. Keep on thinking free.
April 24th, 2007 at 12:53 am
this world would be a better place without religion to f*ck up friendships and races.
….god or not
April 24th, 2007 at 1:03 am
Jason,
I so enjoy your point of view!
>They just know, if they have studied evolution, as some of them have, that complex things evolve from simple beginnings.
I tend to agree with this, but I have to admit, it is a convenient hypothesis. It does look that way, but not having been here when it all started, we can not be certain of what might have gone before our limited observations of the universe.
>There is no other way to do it.
Ahh, that is debatable. It’s the only way I can think of that makes sense, but that does not make it the only way.
Now, consider that evolution continues to the point where you have a highly evolved race which understands physics to the point where they can outlive the big bang cycle. Or perhaps they get to the point they can create their own universe. perhaps they become God. maybe the cycle is eternal.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:04 am
You can find “God” in google, but not google in God.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:06 am
Darwin #152
Darwin, you have not answered anything, you have merely diverted attention to a different matter. You can’t deny what Darwin said, because, well, he did say this. Finding this on “religious” websites may be the only place considering every other chooses to remove it. Try it on Google and give me the one non-biased website that includes this excerpt from Darwin’s book. Not only will you please me but prove me even more (one and the same). Otherwise go get his book and read it as I have done (pg. 217 of Volume I) Don’t get me wrong, he was a very intelligent man, and had many truths in his book. The problem was he got ahead of himself and undeniably regrets it now that he is dead.
That whole radioactive decay thing is great but you must understand that they have to use circular reasoning to form the bases of their dating estimates. Plus, many scientists know but won’t admit that the most fossils can either be “millions of years old” or be a result of extreme pressure for a short period of time (The Flood maybe?…just a thought).
Onto the subject of right and wrong. Once again you don’t explain anything. Where did I even mention the word “survival”? Wow, do you really value yourself on the same level as an animal? No wonder mankind is slowly destroying themselves. What I am saying is that if evolution were true, there we be no right and wrong because nothing would be right or wrong. Hence, we would live in a chaotic world where anything would go without repercussions.
That youtube link is great but can you give something that is unbiased as well? Mankind will always try to deny a higher being, that is part of our selfish nature. I believe him as much as I believe Hitler when he claimed he was god (the antichrist if anything). To say that Creation no longer applies to modern theory is a rather ignorant thing to say. Sure it may longer be in the scientific realm but it is being recognized as the truth by more and more people than ever before in what I like to call the real world. The greatest revival known to man is happening right now and it is only getting bigger. Though many people still choose to reject Him, they will soon see the truth no matter what.
The sad thing is that I feel remorse for those who grow up in a non-Christian home. I too would probably not have the same morals I hold today simply because I am not given the chance to hear of something better. Unfortunately, any mention of Christianity, in muslim dominated countries for example, is quickly quieted because of the uprising that could occur. This country was founded on the Word of God and made us one of the greatest nations as a result. I am blessed to live here and am “blessed to be a blessing”.
Indeed, every hypothesis is valid, but that doesn’t mean they are true. The point is that I know why I am here: to fulfill God’s purpose and plan for my life share the love of God to others and His message). Wow, I know the meaning for of life! I am living for others, what are you living for…?
I shall conclude this heavy response with some humor:
The scientist approached God and said, “Listen, we’ve decided we no longer need you. Nowadays, we can extract stem cells, clone people, transplant hearts, and all kinds of things that were once considered miraculous.”
God patiently heard him out, and then said, “All right. To see whether or not you still need me, why don’t we have a little man-making contest!”
“Okay, great!” the scientist said.
“Now, we’re going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam,” God said.
“That’s fine,” replied the scientist and he bent down to scoop up a handful of dirt.
“Whoa!” God said, shaking his head in disapproval. “Not so fast, pal. You get your own dirt.”
Come back to me when you have broken the second law of thermodynamics - matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:09 am
ily-tail Says:
this world would be a better place without religion to f*ck up friendships and races.
….god or not
Religious belief has pissed on more than one parade, but I’d wager it has dome as much good as harm. Lots of folks just can’t behave in humanitarian ways without a belief that there is more to life than what you get while you are here.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:20 am
These exchanges on message boards serve very little for advancing a belief in God or otherwise but what the hell … The God of the bible is superior to any frame of reference us humans have, the reason I accepted God was not because of a blind faith or apologetics but when I saw the REAL difference in peoples lives (gravity #24), I asked God myself and he responded by coming into my life. The personal relationship that many Christians profess is as real as anything we can touch or see, but is not demonstrable apart from our behaviour. If God were to tangibly prove his existence it would only serve to force people into a robotic following of him through fear … not what He wants.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:31 am
We’re all doomed to grow old and die horrible debilitating deaths, all because some jackass ate some fruit and pissed off a malicious and torturous god.
well.
Fuck god. He can suck my cock.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:46 am
Mr so-called “Who’s truth? Yours?”, would you mind spelling your own nickname, for Google’s sake?
It’s “whose”, not “who’s”.
“Whose shoes are those?”
“They are Jack’s.”
“Who’s Jack?”
“He is Bob’s friend.”
Googledamnit, I can’t cope with you ignorant people, who can’t even spell correctly, going around and even wanting to _teach_ stuff to people.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:46 am
Mr so-called “Who’s truth? Yours?”, would you mind spelling your own nickname correctly, for Google’s sake?
It’s “whose”, not “who’s”.
“Whose shoes are those?”
“They are Jack’s.”
“Who’s Jack?”
“He is Bob’s friend.”
Googledamnit, I can’t cope with you ignorant people, who can’t even spell correctly, going around and even wanting to _teach_ stuff to people.
April 24th, 2007 at 2:17 am
seems like a battle to me, let’s see Google vs God
omg!
April 24th, 2007 at 2:18 am
The concept of Gods and deities etc. were devised to explain phenomena that ancient people couldn’t explain more rationally, given their level of understanding of natural processes. These things were usually cataclysmic processes, such as volcanoes, earth quakes, violent storms etc.
We now have a much greater understanding of the processes involved in the eruption of a volcano for example, or the formation of a hurricane etc. and few people would deny these processes.
The trouble is that having reached this level of understanding, where we don’t necessarily need to explain volcanoes or storms as being acts of God, people have simply tried to find another way to justify the existence of God.
I’m also not at all swayed by the argument that because love exists then surely God must. It can easily be reasoned that what we term as love, is simply a physiological response to assist in bonding between couples, which facilitates the continued survival of our species.
Moral judgement is likewise simply a natural instinct that people (and most other animals) have to ensure productive and healthy social networks, also vital for our survival. There’s nothing mysterious or divine about this. If we hadn’t long ago developed a natural tendency to function effectively in social groups, our species would have become extinct.
I don’t think it’s necessary to prove that God doesn’t exist. A rational person does not believe in something simply because it can’t be disproved. In rational thought, belief is supported by evidence. If the evidence is disproved, then continued belief is no longer logical.
Belief in deities is also often tied in with a concept of an afterlife. This I suspect was driven by the natural horror and grief people experienced as a result of death of family members etc. People wanted to believe that this wasn’t the end. There must be something after. There must be more to it than this. To which I would simply ask, Why?. Why must there be something after death? Simply because it’s to unpleasant to contemplate non-existence? Just because something seems like a nice idea, doesn’t make it true.
Our tendency to be swayed by the God and After-Life concepts is probably an evolved trait. In many ways it’s social conditioning to ensure appropriate co-operative behaviour. In ancient times, the civilisations which were more effective in curbing the anti-social tendency of their people would have been the most successful, and therefore the most likely to spread and multiply, which is the natural tendency of all species.
In short…
1. Strong instincts for successful pair bonding, helps a species procreate successfully. This is assisted by marriage rituals in most cultures.
2. Anti-social behaviour erodes the stability of the social network, and in time weakens a civilisations ability to defend itself against rivals. This led to the concepts of divine retribution for wrong doing. There is no fundamental right or wrong, there is simply behaviour which is detrimental or conducive to evolutionary success.
…
Our societies at the moment exit in a kind of limbo, wanting to embrace rationality, but at the same time, not quite ready to let go of mysticism and superstition. It’s very disturbing that in many ways we’re going backwards, with the continued trend towards extremism of religious beliefs (fundamentalist Christians included).
The problem is that what was once an effective way to maintain harmony in small localised social networks, in a large global environment can become highly destructive, when established beliefs cannot co-exist effectively.
The whole world is now our village, and in time we will need to learn to combine, or conform our belief systems, or humanity will become increasingly violent and dysfunctional. The question just remains, which way will we go, rationality or religion…